Yeah, if I map it to a versus type test, as regular combat is, then you’re looking at multiple rounds of arguing. Not the worst thing in the world, honestly! But then what do I do with “say no,” when the other side just flat refuses you and wants nothing in return?

(This is occasionally a BW issue as well, but the players have accepted that rolling vs. Will in that game is pretty tough.)

Agreed that cross-stabbing each other is brutal. Yeah, absolutely. I think if everyone knew that, they’d think long and hard about engaging with it. Maybe to the point where they simply would not.

Stephanie Bryant yeah, I hear you about the problems of social conflict systems. It’s something we’ve spent the last decade-or-so talking and thinking about! And honestly nothing has changed. Either the table buys it and accepts it (as a means of modeling folks who are more persuasive than the players, or notably characterized as weak-willed or strong-willed), or everyone agrees that we’ll try and be as honest and reasonable as possible and work things out without a system in place.

There are certainly benefits and drawbacks to both. I love the methodology of Burning Wheel’s social conflicts (either as versus tests or the full Duel of Wits system) but it very much introduces a “when all you have is a hammer all you see is nails” mindset to social conflict.